“Did I have female soldiers in battle? Yes. Was the intent of those soldiers to be in battle when they went? Ahh…well I don’t know. Probably not. But, did battle come to them on occasion? Yeah it did.” LTC William Brinkley, Commander, 1st Engineer Battalion
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“There’s no tellin’ how many people we killed, you know?” Specialist Shannon Morgan, US Army
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What the hell. We spend so much time inculcating our children, our teens our young adults, with the idea that killing another human being is the most absolute evil.
And then, boom.
Somewhere, someone makes a decision to send people to war and it’s “Hey guys – here’s a gun, why don’t you go over there and kill some people?”
That’s going to mess you up as they say. But no matter how bad this affects someone, no matter their education level, their ethnicity, their class – you know who always has it worse?
Women. They always get the shaft.
Which brings me to ‘Lioness’ - ever heard of the ‘Lioness Squad’? A team of female solders fighting on the front lines in Iraq? Nah, of course you haven’t. Why bother reporting it?
Lioness synopsis on IMDB:
Lioness presents the untold story of the first group of women soldiers in US history to be sent into direct ground combat, in violation of official policy. Told through intimate accounts, journal excerpts, archive footage, as well as interviews with military commanders, the film follows five women who served together for a year in Iraq. With captivating detail, this probing documentary reveals the unexpected course of events that began with using US women soldiers to defuse tensions with local civilians, but resulted in the women’s fighting in some of the bloodiest counter-insurgency battles of the war. Together the women’s candid narratives and scenes from their lives back home form a portrait of the emotional and psychological effects of war from a female point of view. Lioness is the first film to bridge the gap between perception and reality of the role women in the military are playing in Iraq, capturing an historical turning point for American society.
‘Lioness’ is simple and stark and you should see it. It doesn’t break new ground in the documentary field, but it’s exactly what it should be. And you should see it.
It’s the perfect compliment to ‘The Messenger’ which we reviewed this week – both films speak to the terrible fact that war doesn’t end when a solider comes home – what is seen and done by soldiers in wartime will be with them, will haunt them, will trouble them and disturb them for the rest of their lives.
At least that’s what I’m told. How the hell would I know?
This truth of the consequences of life in wartime needs to be told again and again and again. Until someday, I don’t know when, maybe a thousand years from now when we’re living on the moon, we can stop this madness.
Women will still probably be shafted though.
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You can buy ‘Lioness’ right now on iTunes by clicking here – it costs $9.99 – and yeah, OK maybe you’re not used to paying for online content – so get a couple of buddies together to watch and you each pay $3.33 – or you if you have Netflix it’s also available there.
You should see it. It’s important.
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(Full disclosure: The distributors of ‘Lioness’, New Video Digital were our sponsors this week – and I’m glad they were – it introduced me to this pic which really doesn’t seem to be getting much exposure – the star rating on Netflix as of the time of writing this post isn’t great – and for the life of me I don’t know why – yes, the story is told in ‘documentary basic’ form – but it’s moving, heartfelt and vital – please see it if you can).
15 responses so far.
1 c_johnson // Nov 19, 2009 at 5:45 am
Part of me wants to write a well thought out reply, and add valuable substance to the conversation, but I haven't seen the film yet – so in the meantime I will just say that “Women. They always get the shaft.” needs to go on the poster.
2 StanleyRumm // Nov 19, 2009 at 5:52 am
Here's my problem with it:
I think it's shocking that women are used in combat in Iraq (I hadn't really considered the notion one way or another before now). I don't think female soldiers should be doing that. Then again, I don't think male soldiers should be doing that either. In fact I don't think the US army should have ever gone in there in the first place.
I know for a fact it would be possible to portray just about _anyone_ fighting in that place and describe how terrible it is in one way or another. I feel deeply for all those soldiers as well as everyone in Iraq -and Afganistan- whether they're soldiers or 'locals'.
Why limit the outrage to _just_ women soldiers? I'm kinda fed up with women ganging together to fight their own cause. They might have a point a lot of the time, but it's a one-issue battle “we want the same rights -just recognise we're not the same as men in some ways, but never mention it!”
If I was a woman I'd want things that way too.
Human atrocities are gender-neutral. I know I'd absolutely detest the idea of my daughter going into battle, but I'd also be as outraged at the idea of my son doing so.
If either signed up to join the army (any army) I don't see why one would be given mess-hall duty over another based on their sex.
3 Phil // Nov 19, 2009 at 8:20 am
I'd be more interested to learn about the policies in place to keep women from engaging in combat, and how and why they were violated.
I happen to agree with it, that women should not be forced into combat. On the other hand, for the demand for “equal rights”, including women's insistence on serving in the military – well – sometimes you get what you ask for. You signed up, we went to war….sometimes the battle comes to you.
Sounds like an interesting film.
4 Ana // Nov 19, 2009 at 11:49 am
Thanks for the post, Jett. I appreciate the spirit of it and look forward to seeing the film. I must say though that's it's disappointing to see the old-boys club responses that will discourage any woman from wanting to engage with you further on the topic.
5 StanleyRumm // Nov 19, 2009 at 3:19 pm
I find that rather rude. I put across a valid concern/ reason why the idea of the film doesn't particularly appeal to me. If Jett or anyone else can explain how my preconception is misguided I'm all ears. Truly.
If I hadn't said what I did (and I don't see why it should be dismissed in such a way), then there would be no room to clear the air if possible and everyone in the garden could go on assuming it's right and proper for us all to share the same concerns, then continue ignoring the film.
For every one like myself (and Phil) I dare say there are thousands of others out there who choose to simply ignore the film and not say a word. At least I (and perhaps I can speak for Phil here?) am opening a path through which the movie can be better addressed.
At the moment I find the idea what women serving in the military deserve extra-special treatment rather patronising to women and somewhat disrespectful to male soldiers. If that view has nothing to do with the movie, then I'm happy to be taught why. If that view is a problem for you then I'm happy to know why that is too.
I am not only discouraging any woman (or man) from wanting to engage, but I am positively hopeful you can educate me in my knowledge of the film or on my perceptions of women in the military.
…and you might want to bear in mind that earlier today, in another forum, I was informed I was a woman by one person and a closet homosexual by another because I a) don't like watching sports and b) dislike the Call of Duty games for being too real.
I found *that* viewpoint funny, but when you place me in “the old-boys club” on the same day I am decidedly more unimpressed by that.
6 Jett Loe // Nov 19, 2009 at 4:35 pm
I appreciate this is an intense topic for so many reasons but let's keep everything civil here folks, (I'm talkin' to all yall – myself included) :)
If i could I'd send everybody a copy of 'Lioness' so we could talk about the film!
(Remember it is available on iTunes for a tenner, and on Netflix as well)
7 Ana // Nov 19, 2009 at 6:49 pm
Stanley, I genuinely apologize. You are right, my remark was rude and curt. You are without question entitled to your opinion. I will try to explain my emotional reaction. The discussion of women in the military and women's representation in the world of film in general, is very uncommon. Even on this progressive film podcast, films featuring women in any context with serious and complex roles are rarely brought up. I was pleased to see that Jett had dedicated a whole post to such a film. I was hoping that such a post would invite discussion from the viewpoint of those less often given a voice in the majority opinion. I understand though that my emotional response was not productive and I truly apologize for cutting off the conversation.
8 Phil // Nov 19, 2009 at 8:17 pm
But if you don't offer any discussion or viewpoint, how will we know your opinion?
So far it doesn't seem like you have, only expressed displeasure in Stanley's (and I presume my) opinion -
I would love to hear your thoughts on this topic (and I hope this isn't coming across as sarcastic because it is not – I know you can't always read context into plain text).
You will not offend me!
9 StanleyRumm // Nov 20, 2009 at 2:02 am
Thanks Ana. I didn't mean to cause offence and to be honest I don't think my remarks should be seen as offensive. I'm all for casting light on women in the military, but as we've seen, it appears to be an area where men must thread very carefully. One step in the wrong direction and kaboom.
It's not too long ago when there were no women -or very few- in the military. I remember women fighting for the right to join the ranks, etc. and I had difficulties with that too -for much the same reasons as you've been giving… women should be treated differently in some ways. Not because of any philosophical reasons, but for physical ones more than anything else. We're built differently.
…I can see already I'm entering another minefield… :)
Anyway, my point is, I'm all for throwing light on the subject of women in the military/ how they are treated/ how they should be treated. I'm also all in favour of the same for men. The military is not known for its emotional engagement with its personnel, if women help in that regard perhaps it's a good thing. Then again, maybe that detachment is an essential ingredient. I wouldn't purport to know.
I'm sure at least some of the above can be read in a manner other than the way intended, but either way -I'm not the enemy. Neither is Phil. I found c_johnson's reply very funny and would almost certainly help draw attention to the film -perhaps not what anyone would expect, but surely there's no point in attracting _only_ those people who already see it as “a worthy cause”?
Overall, I still don't see how/if Lioness addresses anything I've said so it remains a bit of a block for me. Fair enough, I accept women should be allowed into the military. I realise this causes particular problems for women. I wouldn't wouldn't wish those problems on anyone -male or female. Having fought so hard for this, it's hard to see what's to validly complain about when it's granted.
…*BUT* I do agree (as I've said before) -it is something I *would* complain about if I was a woman. I would not want to go into combat and I would expect the military not to send me. If I was thinking rationally however, I wouldn't have much hope in my cause being given any special attention.
…Damn, I thought I was doing ok there for a while, but I realise I died in the minefield a quarter-ways through and I spent my first moments of eternity typing my final thoughts. :(
10 Ana // Nov 20, 2009 at 7:26 am
Hi Phil, I appreciate your comment and you're right, I didn't really say anything of substance with my first post, which was completely counter-productive. Thanks for being open to hearing more :). I guess I actually wish we could steer the debate away from whether or not women should be in the military, or whether or not women are requesting special treatment, toward a pure acceptance of the fact that women are there and they have a story to tell. We will never go back to an era where women are not in the military and more and more often women will be in combat. I guess I just want to give them the stage and not have to stumble first over whether or not it's right/acceptable for them to be there. I apologize again for not being more fair-minded in my first post.
11 Ana // Nov 20, 2009 at 7:37 am
Thanks for accepting my apology Stanley and I actually agree with you that there are many issues in military life, for both men and women that should be addressed. I can tell that you are open to the discussion and, even though it's an emotional topic, I shouldn't make the atmosphere seem so minfield-like :).
12 Phil // Nov 20, 2009 at 9:10 am
I definitely agree with that viewpoint. You're right, in that my first reaction is just what you stated – focusing on the film's message (whatever it is, I have yet to see it) of simply “women in the military” – when I'm sure if I watched, I'd be more intrigued by the message from the women themselves.
In fact, I think in a previous post of Jett's about the portrayal of women and sexuality in cinema, you and I were on the same page (I think it was you?).
I didn't think you weren't being fair-minded, I just thought you should counter with the points you just made.
13 John Muth // Nov 29, 2009 at 2:53 pm
I got to see Lioness today, and thought that it was a pretty touching study of these soldiers, and how being the first wave of what's surely likely to become a more common-place occurrence – of women in more combat roles.
The interesting thing about the movie is how it's just trying to get awareness that with the ways wars are fought now, it's not fair to any of the soldiers to have certain people sidelined, in order to perpetrate antiquated ideals. As a number of people mention in the movie, it's not even about actually sending women out into active combat roles, as much as not having them fully trained to defend themselves and their fellow soldiers, in case of combat.
Having only a tangential relationships with the military (I enlisted in the Marines – for the hopeful college assistance – but wound up blowing out my knee and was discharged 2/3 into training), I can tell you that the women enlisting, and already in the military are just as able – if not in some cases, more-so – than any man.
But, what the movie points out pretty well, with the interviews with the soldiers as well as their families, that have also served – is that it doesn't matter what your gender is, risking your life and taking someone else's effects you just the same and stays with you forever.
14 allisoni // Dec 16, 2009 at 12:01 am
Hey Jett, Lioness was the first screening of our ITVS Community Cinema season last year at the downtown library, just a few weeks before it aired on PBS. We had a panel discussion afterward with women veterans and a psychologist who works with women veterans (many of whom are raped while in the military – could someone do a film about that?). About 50 cities across the country screened the film as part of this series and had similar discussions with the military community. It's one of my favorites of our offerings and one of the best profiles of a soldier I've seen (Shannon specifically). Too bad we didn't get the word to you! You could've discussed it with a crowd. We've had a couple of military related films in the series, and it's interesting how censored veterans seem to feel on a panel. They might be candid in a phone conversation but tend to present a cheery picture of military life when they're on stage with a microphone. No surprise I guess.
By the way, all the women vets I talked to wanted to go into combat, no question, because they believe in their mission and do not see themselves as particularly delicate. Fighting a war is not just about brawn, after all. In the film, no one is naively shocked that she got what she asked for. The women simply wanted proper training and recognition for their work.
15 allisoni // Dec 16, 2009 at 7:01 am
Hey Jett, Lioness was the first screening of our ITVS Community Cinema season last year at the downtown library, just a few weeks before it aired on PBS. We had a panel discussion afterward with women veterans and a psychologist who works with women veterans (many of whom are raped while in the military – could someone do a film about that?). About 50 cities across the country screened the film as part of this series and had similar discussions with the military community. It's one of my favorites of our offerings and one of the best profiles of a soldier I've seen (Shannon specifically). Too bad we didn't get the word to you! You could've discussed it with a crowd. We've had a couple of military related films in the series, and it's interesting how censored veterans seem to feel on a panel. They might be candid in a phone conversation but tend to present a cheery picture of military life when they're on stage with a microphone. No surprise I guess.
By the way, all the women vets I talked to wanted to go into combat, no question, because they believe in their mission and do not see themselves as particularly delicate. Fighting a war is not just about brawn, after all. In the film, no one is naively shocked that she got what she asked for. The women simply wanted proper training and recognition for their work.
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